The Memorable Thoughts of Socrates | Page 8

thirty years old am I forbid to ask
him the price of it?" "I mean not so," answered Charicles: "but I am not
surprised that you ask me this question, for it is your custom to ask
many things that you know very well." Socrates added: "And if a young
man ask me in the street where Charicles lodges, or whether I know
where Critias is, must I make him no answer?" "I mean not so neither,"
answered Charicles. Here Critias, interrupting their discourse, said:
"For the future, Socrates, you must have nothing to do with the city
tradesmen, the shoemakers, masons, smiths, and other mechanics,
whom you so often allege as examples of life; and who, I apprehend,
are quite jaded with your discourses." "I must then likewise," replied
Socrates, "omit the consequences I draw from those discourses; and
have no more to do with justice, piety, and the other duties of a good
man." "Yes, yes," said Charicles; "and I advise you to meddle no more
with those that tend herds of oxen; otherwise take care you lose not
your own." And these last words made it appear that Critias and
Charicles had taken offence at the discourse which Socrates had held
against their government, when he compared them to a man that suffers
his herd to fall to ruin.
Thus we see how Critias frequented Socrates, and what opinion they

had of each other. I add, moreover, that we cannot learn anything of a
man whom we do not like: therefore if Critias and Alcibiades made no
great improvement with Socrates, it proceeded from this, that they
never liked him. For at the very time that they conversed with him, they
always rather courted the conversation of those who were employed in
the public affairs, because they had no design but to govern.--The
following conference of Alcibiades, in particular, which he had with
Pericles, his governor--who was the chief man of the city, whilst he
was yet under twenty years of age--concerning the nature of the laws,
will confirm what I have now advanced.
"Pray," says Alcibiades, "explain to me what the law is: for, as I hear
men praised who observe the laws, I imagine that this praise could not
be given to those who know not what the law is." "It is easy to satisfy
you," answered Pericles: "the law is only what the people in a general
assembly ordain, declaring what ought to be done, and what ought not
to be done." "And tell me," added Alcibiades, "do they ordain to do
what is good, or what is ill?" "Most certainly what is good." Alcibiades
pursued: "And how would you call what a small number of citizens
should ordain, in states where the people is not the master, but all is
ordered by the advice of a few persons, who possess the sovereignty?"
"I would call whatever they ordain a law; for laws are nothing else but
the ordinances of sovereigns." "If a tyrant then ordain anything, will
that be a law?" "Yes, it will," said Pericles. "But what then is violence
and injustice?" continued Alcibiades; "is it not when the strongest
makes himself be obeyed by the weakest, not by consent, but by force
only?" "In my opinion it is." "It follows then," says Alcibiades, "that
ordinances made by a prince, without the consent of the citizens, will
be absolutely unjust." "I believe so," said Pericles; "and cannot allow
that the ordinances of a prince, when they are made without the consent
of the people, should bear the name of laws." "And what the chief
citizens ordain, without procuring the consent of the greater number, is
that likewise a violence?" "There is no question of it," answered
Pericles; "and in general, every ordinance made without the consent of
those who are to obey it, is a violence rather than a law." "And is what
the populace decree, without the concurrence of the chiefs, to be
counted a violence likewise, and not a law?" "No doubt it is," said

Pericles: "but when I was of your age, I could resolve all these
difficulties, because I made it my business to inquire into them, as you
do now." "Would to God," cried Alcibiades, "I had been so happy as to
have conversed with you then, when you understood these matters
better." To this purpose was their dialogue.
Critias and Alcibiades, however, continued not long with Socrates,
after they believed they had improved themselves, and gained some
advantages over the other citizens, for besides that they thought not his
conversation very agreeable, they were displeased that he took upon
him to reprimand them for their faults; and thus they threw themselves
immediately into the public affairs, having never had any other design
but that. The usual companions of