Alcibiades II | Page 6

station
rather than have had the glories of command. If, indeed, such perils and
terrors were of profit to the commonwealth, there would be reason in
undergoing them; but the very contrary is the case. Again, you will find
persons who have prayed for offspring, and when their prayers were
heard, have fallen into the greatest pains and sufferings. For some have
begotten children who were utterly bad, and have therefore passed all
their days in misery, while the parents of good children have undergone
the misfortune of losing them, and have been so little happier than the
others that they would have preferred never to have had children rather
than to have had them and lost them. And yet, although these and the
like examples are manifest and known of all, it is rare to find any one
who has refused what has been offered him, or, if he were likely to gain
aught by prayer, has refrained from making his petition. The mass of
mankind would not decline to accept a tyranny, or the command of an
army, or any of the numerous things which cause more harm than good:
but rather, if they had them not, would have prayed to obtain them. And
often in a short space of time they change their tone, and wish their old
prayers unsaid. Wherefore also I suspect that men are entirely wrong
when they blame the gods as the authors of the ills which befall them
(compare Republic): 'their own presumption,' or folly (whichever is the
right word)--
'Has brought these unmeasured woes upon them.' (Homer. Odyss.)
He must have been a wise poet, Alcibiades, who, seeing as I believe,

his friends foolishly praying for and doing things which would not
really profit them, offered up a common prayer in behalf of them all:--
'King Zeus, grant us good whether prayed for or unsought by us; But
that which we ask amiss, do thou avert.' (The author of these lines,
which are probably of Pythagorean origin, is unknown. They are found
also in the Anthology (Anth. Pal.).)
In my opinion, I say, the poet spoke both well and prudently; but if you
have anything to say in answer to him, speak out.
ALCIBIADES: It is difficult, Socrates, to oppose what has been well
said. And I perceive how many are the ills of which ignorance is the
cause, since, as would appear, through ignorance we not only do, but
what is worse, pray for the greatest evils. No man would imagine that
he would do so; he would rather suppose that he was quite capable of
praying for what was best: to call down evils seems more like a curse
than a prayer.
SOCRATES: But perhaps, my good friend, some one who is wiser than
either you or I will say that we have no right to blame ignorance thus
rashly, unless we can add what ignorance we mean and of what, and
also to whom and how it is respectively a good or an evil?
ALCIBIADES: How do you mean? Can ignorance possibly be better
than knowledge for any person in any conceivable case?
SOCRATES: So I believe:--you do not think so?
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
SOCRATES: And yet surely I may not suppose that you would ever
wish to act towards your mother as they say that Orestes and Alcmeon
and others have done towards their parent.
ALCIBIADES: Good words, Socrates, prithee.
SOCRATES: You ought not to bid him use auspicious words, who says
that you would not be willing to commit so horrible a deed, but rather
him who affirms the contrary, if the act appear to you unfit even to be
mentioned. Or do you think that Orestes, had he been in his senses and
knew what was best for him to do, would ever have dared to venture on
such a crime?
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
SOCRATES: Nor would any one else, I fancy?
ALCIBIADES: No.
SOCRATES: That ignorance is bad then, it would appear, which is of

the best and does not know what is best?
ALCIBIADES: So I think, at least.
SOCRATES: And both to the person who is ignorant and everybody
else?
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
SOCRATES: Let us take another case. Suppose that you were suddenly
to get into your head that it would be a good thing to kill Pericles, your
kinsman and guardian, and were to seize a sword and, going to the
doors of his house, were to enquire if he were at home, meaning to slay
only him and no one else:--the servants reply, 'Yes': (Mind, I do not
mean that you would really do such a thing; but there is nothing, you
think, to prevent a man who is ignorant of the best, having occasionally
the whim that what is worst is